Author Archive: Revraney

I had a really good question come my way the other day.  In response to the recent case of three girls being held captive for roughly 10 years and being repeatedly abused by a Cleveland man they asked, “how can God answer some prayers and not answer others?  Specifically, how could God have answered others prayers and not these girls?  It is not uncommon for us to respond this way in the face of such evil.  There are any number of horrific events happening all too frequently that could solicit the same question.  We try to make sense out of what is going on in the world around us.  Often when we do we are frustrated by how things don’t fit into our understanding of  God.

Well there’s quite a lot that can be said here.  First on a simplistic level do we know anyone prayed in this case (or more specifically prayed to the true God)?  More importantly however are our ideas regarding God and prayer.  This question, one  most of us often ask, reveals that we view God as something that exists to give us what we want.  For example, I pray and God gives it to me. When He doesn’t give it to me there must be some ‘reason’ He didn’t.  For example,  I didn’t have enough faith or I did something wrong etc. The most common thing is to rationalize the whole thing by coming up with the saying “God doesn’t give us what we want but what we need”.  The problem here is we think only in terms of ‘things’ we need to survive.  What exactly is it that we need?  Well that’s actually quite simple.  God is what we need.  Throughout history righteous people have suffered and God did not intercede.  The Apostle Paul even said that he rejoices in his sufferings. Instead of God giving us what we need think about it as God IS what we need – not just here and now but for all eternity.

Now that’s kind of a round about way to address the original question but we need to change our view regarding how we  relate to God.  He does not exist to give us things (even freedom from suffering)  His desire is to ultimately make us all like Jesus Christ.  Answering our prayers does not lead to giving us what we ask but to making us like Christ because ultimately that is the only thing that will really make us happy.

The final point I would like to share is that we live in a corrupt world.  One of the great ironies is that the root of this corruption is actually found in the greatness of how God created us.  He created us with free will.  This free will is what enables us to do great things including acts of kindness,compassion and selflessness.  But it is this very same free will that enables us to do terrible things, self-centered things. God does not always interfere with the events of life because to always do so would require the removal of our free will.  Without the free will we could never enjoy Him, enjoy life or be like Him.

God does not merely give us what we need.  He is what we need.

The latest social issue to take the news by storm, gay marriage, is yet another example of the progressives attempt to manipulate a discussion to get a favorable result. This is the common tactic of progressives. Frame the discussion so that the populace will sympathize with their view. The uneducated populace who so many lack the ability of critical thinking are easily duped.

The argument from the progressives are that gays should be allowed to marry; simply put, they already are. Those who identify themselves as gay can get married. It is not illegal for them to do so. If two people of the same sex stand before someone and say some form of vows and that person or persons proclaim them to be married, no one is going to arrest them coming out of the building. A protester interviewed stated that he had come here from Iran where he and his partner were not allowed to get married. He was horrified that in America they too were telling him what he could and could not do. But the truth is, they are not telling him what he can and cannot do. If he wants to marry another man, go ahead. There is literally no one stopping him from doing so. It is already legal for people of the same sex to get married.

So then why do we hear in the news that the battle is to make it legal for people of the same sex to get married? Because the progressives want to make it a matter of persecution. If they can present themselves as the persecuted, then America will sympathize with them. We always feel for the persecuted. But they are not being persecuted.

The real argument is not about whether people of the same sex can get married. It is about whether they will get benefits awarded or regulated by the government that are related to married couples – hardly a matter of persecution. Tell the Christians in Sudan this is what you call persecution and see what they say. The proponents of this argument and their allies, the progressives want the government, and ultimately society to validate their marriage. “Well what gives the government the right to say marriage is one thing and not another?” A typical progressive approach to a debate. If we in America still had the ability to think critically and logically we would see right through this statement on two levels. First, by definition, since the government is an organization they have to define things. That is what organizations do. They define things that are relevant to their existence. Government defines things all the time. If you are below a certain level of income you are defined as being in poverty – and you receive certain benefits. Ironically enough this is a definition the progressives fight for ferociously. Try saying we are no longer going to define certain people as poor for the purpose of awarding benefits and see what happens. So the government defines what marriage is because by definition they define things that are effected by policies. Secondly, since by definition the government (or any organization) must define things that relate to policies, there has to be some criteria. Could the government define marriage to include people of the same sex? Absolutely; and they could also define it as one man and sixteen women, or one woman and sixteen men. They could also define it as a man and a child or a woman and a child; pretty much any combination is possible. But a definition has to have a limit, a set criteria or else it is not a definition. Because it is related to policies the government is forced to define marriage.

So the real argument from the progressives is that they disagree with government’s definition of marriage and they want it changed to meet their criteria. But they cannot present the argument to the public in this way because the masses would not see them as persecuted or victims and they would not have their sympathy. They must say that gays ar not allowed to get married because the government says so. This is simply not true; it is an intentional lie. Government has decided to define marriage as one man and one woman because they believe this is what is best for society (in reality many politicians go along with this out of political expediency; nevertheless, it is politically expedient because the majority of society, their voting constituents believe this way). Government does this all the time. For example, people who have a mortgage get to deduct that from their income tax because government believes owning a home is a good thing for the economy.

Homosexuals already can get married. They are pressing, not for the right to get married, but to have that marriage added to the government’s definition of marriage. They will ultimately win that argument. We are not going to stop it. Those of us who oppose such things, specifically on the grounds of morality need to stop depending on the government to do our job. When the government recognizes same sex marriage as legitimate, we don’t have to. We can speak against such things, as we should. We should speak against all manner of destructive sin – not just homosexuality. We must speak the message of freedom, of deliverance from sin, all sin. We have been far too timid and compliant. Our goal is not simply to offend nor to defend our position. But we recognize the destructive nature of sin. To remain silent is to allow people to die in their sin whilst we remain complacent in our self righteousness.

The story told in the Gospel of Mark chapter 16, as well as the other Gospels such as John chapter 20 is quite an amazing one indeed. A man was dead and buried. He had experienced a brutal, violent death, his body wracked with injury deformation and pain, hardly recognizable. His family and friends had buried him in a borrowed tomb, for he was a poor man and had no burial place of his own. Plus this grave site was close by and they had limited time to bury him since it was later in the day and approaching their religious Holy day or Sabbath, on which burying him would have been a violation of their religious ways.

Clearly illustrating their expectations, a few days later, the first day of the week, a small handful went to his tomb to mourn and to anoint his body, which was a part of their custom. Here is where the story gets crazy. When they arrived at the grave, which was more like a vault than our common holes filled in with dirt, they noticed the large stone that served as the ‘door’ for the vault-grave was moved aside, leaving the grave open. They had been worried on their trip there about how they would get inside the vault or tomb, because none of them were strong enough to move this stone. They were just a handful of women. Though this problem had apparently solved itself, the sight of the open grave did not comfort them.

Although this man had been poor, he wasn’t without influence and he was well known in many circles. The authorities were so concerned about his influence that they decided to place guards around his grave out of fear that someone would steal his body and claim an incredible miracle.

As they approached the tomb there was no one else around. The guards who had been assigned were no where to be found, which is odd in and of itself. These guards were from the military and to leave their post would be an offense worthy of sever punishment. They looked in the tomb and saw there was no body inside. This crushed the already grieving women. Who would do such a thing? Had he, and they not already suffered enough? Now, someone has taken the body and they have no idea where it has gone.

They then saw a young man sitting off to the right. They had not seen or noticed him before, which was curious. Clearly when they approached, no one was there. They did not recognize the young man but he spoke to them as if a known acquaintance or even a friend. Somehow he knew why they were there. He said, ““You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified.” Then he said something that took them all aback. His demeanor was not one of mourning or sorrow as there’s, but rather he seemed happy, almost giddy as he said to them, “He has risen! He is not here.” Had he said what they all thought they heard? Had he told them that the reason Jesus wasn’t in that grave was not because someone’s act of cruelty, but rather the most incredible of miracles had occurred? Was he telling them that Jesus had risen, that he was alive again?

It was so unbelievable, but yet for some reason they believed it anyway. The young man then told them to go tell the other followers and to look for him because they will be seeing him. Upon doing so some of the followers or disciples came running to the tomb to see for themselves. When they arrived they found it to be just as the women had described.

Something like this was exactly, well almost exactly, what the authorities had feared. A story like this, while obviously unbelievable to the educated could stir up the ignorant masses. The city, even though the whole country was already a hotbed of religious and political discontent. The last thing they needed was some crazy story about a man who himself had been an powerful miracle worker as well as teacher, now being the focus of a most-incredible miracle.

According to the story this man, Jesus, appeared to his followers and stayed with them for several days before he physically left them, ascending into heaven. His appearance wasn’t an apparition, but literally being with them in the flesh. He told them he would provide the Holy Spirit to them to be with them as his presence after his ascension. And he instructed them to tell the whole world about his death and resurrection and what its purpose was and whatit meant. He told them it was to forgive and save people from their sin and provide them eternal life with him and the Father.

The followers did just that. They told the story, over and over, convincing people to believe and to put their confidence and trust in this story, this message as the way to God. This sorely displeased both the religious and political authorities, whom it was sometimes hard to tell the difference. It riled the religious authorities becasue it stood in contrast to thier story which was that the way to God was to listen to, obey and follow them. This story of a risen Jesus threatened their very existence. It bothered the political authorities becasue it appeared to carry the risk of disturbing the peace in an already tense environment. The reality being that the only thing about the message that caused any disturbance was the reaction, the rejection by the religious authorities.

This would have to be put to a stop, quickly and forcefully. The authorities used their power to prosecute and persecute the people who were sharing the message. Some were thrown into prison and beaten and property taken. Some were were even killed.

This is where the compelling argument comes in. This story took place some 2000 years ago and still is told today. Not just as legend or fable, but as an answer to anyone who would listen and believe; an answer to the real problem of life, our separation from God. For 2000 years some have believed and many have rejected the message. Some have rejected it violently. During all that time many have done all they can to show the story to be a myth, a lie even.

For those who believe, the difficulty comes in the fact that it cannot be ‘proven’, as the cynic and unbeliever will say, and it is utterly foolish in its facts and even its nature. The story was first told by eye witnesses. They either saw the empty tomb or they didn’t. They either saw the risen Jesus or they didn’t. The cynic will argue that the followers stole away his body or that he was never really dead after the crucifixion and the followers were simply perpetrating a lie, a hoax. While there are so many debates for such matters that show these to be weak accusations at best, one stands stronger than any other. These eye witnesses knew if what they were saying was true or a lie. When faced with severe persecution, even death, not one of them admitted it was a lie. They held firm to the story even when it brought them suffering and death. How many people do you know that would hold to a story they knew to be a lie when it would cause their suffering and even their death?

God Has Spoken

What does the election of 2012 say regarding the church in America? Every once in a while an election says something about the nation as a whole. This election was a referendum about the heart and soul of America.

This is not the America I grew up believing in or grew up in for that matter. That America is one that believed in personal responsibility. In that America you believed in working for what you have rather than feeling that you are entitled to it and the state should give it to you. It was a place where people stood up for and did what was right, just because it was right. In that America neighbor helped neighbor and society, not a government program took care of those in need.

In today’s America over half of the country votes for someone that believes it is okay to murder unborn children for the sake of convenience. The message is loud and clear that a woman’s body is her own, but what about the Baby’s body? Who does it belong to? A mother can kill her child without remorse and expect the rest of the country to pay for it. Women have forsaken the glorious gift of motherhood. Leaders are selected in this America in the belief that they will give us things and take care of us. Oh how this sounds like Israel when they cried out for a king. God’s response was to tell them that He is supposed to be their king; that He was their provider and the one to take care of them. But that is not what they wanted, not God, so He gave them what they wanted and their fate was sealed from that point on. In this America men burn in their lusts for other men and women do likewise, again fulfilling the deprivation described in Romans, and most of the country says let them be, it’s just an alternative way of life.

Today’s America is self-serving rather than serving. It is self-centered. Flash mobs and race riots take place but are ignored by the media. Israel is increasingly cursed. “I will bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you” God says about the seed of Abraham, Israel. Money is spent by both government and its citizens that they do not have, much like a drug addict seeking the next high. Pleasure is the god of the people.

So where does the church fit into this decline, this devolution? God is a hobby, not absolute authority. There are large, even mega-churches that have thousands, even tens of thousands of people in attendance, but what real difference do they make? Churches have programs, busses for road trips, majestic buildings, great organizations, professional and entertaining music, fun activities and feel good projects.

But with all of this at our disposal we have still lost the heart and soul of our country. The role of the church is to share and live the gospel of Christ. The gospel of Christ is sharper than any two-edged sword and is the power of God unto salvation. It is given to the church. It fully changes lives. So why are so few lives being changed? Why has the heart of the country devolved and become more dark and self-centered? We play in church while the country sinks into the abyss of sinfulness. We preach feel-good messages while a young woman becomes a cult hero because she demands that the government, which means the rest of the population, should pay for her promiscuous lifestyle. A large portion of the country lives like animals while the church hides in her buildings.

This election was not the result of a campaign. The election results of November 6th, 2012 are a culmination of years and years of effort by those who have rejected Christ and the apathy and lethargy of those who claim to follow him. This election was not stolen, as some will claim. The people voted and the one who received the most votes won. That is how the system works – it worked fine. The problem is not the system. It is the people.

At first we were outraged that a homosexual teacher would be allowed to teach in a school. Then someone said that’s not fair and we accepted. Now, our children are taught in school that it is perfectly acceptable to have two mommies and that children should pursue their feelings, no matter what they are. We thought that children shouldn’t keep score or that grading children hurt their self-esteem. Self-esteem is earned through accomplishment. And the church stood by and watched.

“For decades we have instilled children with leftism, nihilism, hedonism, relativism, and atheism through academia, the media, and popular culture; we have seduced them into sin and made them, as Ben Franklin wrote, “more corrupt and vicious, [so] they have more need of masters.” For sure, masters will be one’s lot if he has not mastered himself.” Selwyn Duke
Read more Here

Divorce was a tragedy in the church and we taught that a marriage was to be honored no matter what. But then we became more progressive and enlightened and rationalized that God really just wants us to be happy. If you are not happy in your marriage then surely a divorce must follow. And now it is as common-place in the church as it is anywhere. We didn’t preach about it because we didn’t want to hurt someone’s feelings. We were appalled when people were sexually abused and even more so in the church so we made up rules rather than preaching the truth about debauchery. We did not want to offend anyone.

For years the church has handed out food and clothing “in the name of Jesus”, without sharing the message of Jesus. Jesus liberates people from sin and bondage. How often has anyone mentioned that Paul said, “if a man is not willing to work, then let him not eat.”? When the woman caught in the act of adultery was brought to Jesus He did indeed forgive her of her sin, but He also said “Go and sin no more.” The gospel is a forgiving message but not a compromising message. You cannot compromise with sin. Mix a little yeast into a batch and the whole batch is affected.

We invite people to a church picnic or party, thinking that magically they will “get saved”. When do we tell them about the Jesus that is supposed to be so near and dear to our heart? When do we share with them the Jesus that we have forsaken all for? We spend more time worrying about how we are going to “do” our Sunday morning gatherings than we do worrying about our soul and it’s Christ. Praise band has to be just right, words on the screen, ushers and greeters assigned and trained and everything flowing. It has to be entertaining after all.

We have allowed the heart and soul of America to be stolen away. God gave us a solemn duty and we have not done it. Years ago we would have been indignant if our president would have said to some foreign leader that America is not a Christian nation. It barely raised an eyebrow when it happened recently.

This election is the result of the fact that we have lost the heart and soul of America and we have no one else to blame but ourselves. The church in America wants to be liked and to fit in. Jesus warned us that the world would hate us. They hated Him before us, so they will hate us. We do not like that idea. As a matter of fact that idea repulses us. There has to be a better way we say.

God has spoken. He allowed this election to turn out the way it did. He has allowed our country to become so far in debt that we cannot pay our way out. He did not intervene. He could have, but He didn’t.

The prophet Joel writes,

“Hear this, you elders;
listen, all who live in the land.
Has anything like this ever happened in your days
or in the days of your ancestors?
3 Tell it to your children,
and let your children tell it to their children,
and their children to the next generation.
4 What the locust swarm has left
the great locusts have eaten;
what the great locusts have left
the young locusts have eaten;
what the young locusts have left
other locusts[a] have eaten.

Joel 1:2-4

Read on that book and see that he goes on and paints a dire picture of Israel and calls upon the people to repent. Scenes like this are repeated all through the Old Testament, especially in the prophets. God brings judgment upon the nation to call them back to a place of repentance, a place of righteousness.

We have gotten exactly what we have asked for. We have reaped what we have sown. We have been unwilling to pay the price of following Christ. Our nation has been as a partying drunkard. The night is about over and the bill has to be paid. The church has watched it happen and even participated.

We are going to see more of this:

Has not the food been cut off
before our very eyes—
joy and gladness
from the house of our God?
17 The seeds are shriveled
beneath the clods.[d]
The storehouses are in ruins,
the granaries have been broken down,
for the grain has dried up.
18 How the cattle moan!
The herds mill about
because they have no pasture;
even the flocks of sheep are suffering.

19 To you, Lord, I call,
for fire has devoured the pastures in the wilderness
and flames have burned up all the trees of the field.
20 Even the wild animals pant for you;
the streams of water have dried up
and fire has devoured the pastures in the wilderness.

Joel 1:16-20

Our answer is likewise found in the book of the prophet Joel:

Put on sackcloth, you priests, and mourn;
wail, you who minister before the altar.
Come, spend the night in sackcloth,
you who minister before my God;
for the grain offerings and drink offerings
are withheld from the house of your God.
14 Declare a holy fast;
call a sacred assembly.
Summon the elders
and all who live in the land
to the house of the Lord your God,
and cry out to the Lord.

Joel 1:13-14

“In the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, in order to fulfill the word of the Lord spoken by Jeremiah, the Lord moved the heart of Cyrus king of Persia to make a proclamation throughout his realm and also to put it in writing:

“This is what Cyrus king of Persia says:

“‘The Lord, the God of heaven, has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and he has appointed me to build a temple for him at Jerusalem in Judah”” Ezra 1:1-2

Why did the Lord give Cyrus, a Persian, his kingdoms? Why did He grant him such power, wealth and influence?

As Christians we often look at things like this in a purely cause and effect perspective. We think God gives people things or blesses them because they are good people, because they deserve them. That’s why it throws us into such a tizzy when bad things come the way of good people and good things come the way of bad people (we can discuss the fallacy of the whole good people, bad people concept another time). It doesn’t compute. Our sense of fairness tells us this should not be the case.

God has a plan, and that plan has the good of all His people in mind. But good is no always what we think it should be. We are immature and have limited understanding and often what we think is good (for us or otherwise) is different than what really is good.

God granted Cyrus his kingdom, his power, his wealth as an instrument to accomplish God’s will. He was going to re-establish and redeem Israel. Cyrus and his power, wealth and influence were to be a key factor in doing so. Here, God uses someone who is not a Jew to bless His chosen people the Jews.

Throughout history God has used all manner of people to accomplish His will. Some have been people of faith while others were not.

Part of the reason we struggle reconciling these thoughts is because we misunderstand what blessings are. We look primarily at blessings as things we like. When I was a kid I didn’t like that red medicine mom put on my knee when I tore it up playing football in the yard. But in spite of what I thought about it, it was a good thing.

Secondly, we have a hard time seeing the big picture. There is a big picture in God’s will, not just for humanity overall but for each one of us in particular. Now, there is no way we can know or comprehend God’s compete will for the whole world or even ourselves but there things that we can know. He wants us to be perfect in Him. Regardless of the attainability of that goal in this life He coaxes, encourages, pulls, pushes, and whatever else is necessary to keep us moving toward that mark. To that end He uses whatever He chooses to use to accomplish His will. If it means giving a kingdom and power to someone, that’s what He does.

It is important to distinguish God’s work to accomplish His will versus our idea that He gives good things only to people who deserve them. The ‘good’ that God wants to give is His perfect will for us. We twist ourselves into all manner of shapes and directions when we try to figure out why good things come to bad people and bad things come to good people against the backdrop of our perceived sense of fairness. We are better off putting into practice the admonition “Be still and know that I am God.”

Its amazing how God works things out. Last night I was originally scheduled to lead a discipleship group that I’ve been working with almost two years. This happens on the same night that the church I am currently pastoring has a midweek Bible study get together. There is a very capable teacher leading the Bible study at the church on this day so I’ve been trying to balance between going to the discipleship group and the Bible study.

As the day progressed one thing after another came up in the daily life of the people involved in the discipleship group. Things like family members in the hospital, car accidents, and kids getting hurt – tough day. As these things happened, one by one people were texting me and telling me they were not going to be able to participate in the discipleship group. We were pretty much forced to reschedule the discipleship group to next week. Naturally I was disappointed, but I didn’t know what God had in mind.

It was still early enough so Marie and I decided we would go to the Bible study at the church instead. We needed a few things from the grocery so we left plenty early to stop at the store and then still make it to the Bible study gathering. About five minutes into our grocery shopping we ran into someone we had not seen in years. After a quick moment of trading pleasantries an innocent statement was made that surprisingly triggered a tragic story from the person. This mother began to describe how their relationship with their children had completely fallen apart and crumbled. It was so sad and awful. Both Marie and my hearts were broken. For awhile I stood there not knowing anything to say. I kept asking God to give me the words to say in addition to silently praying for this person’s soul. There was such hurt, sadness and anger in their own heart as they related their story.

We stood there listening for well over half an hour in the middle of the grocery store. This person needed to share this story. There wasn’t a whole lot we could say other than to encourage them that things could still turn out well and this would be what God wanted. We ended the conversation assuring her we would pray for her. Shae had said, “I guess I bored you with my story”. We assured her that was not the case and I told her, “Well now you’ve given me something to pray for”, in a way that said I was glad for the opportuinity.

As we continued with our shopping I looked at the time and it was already ten minutes after the time the Bible study started and we not only had to finish our shopping but had to drive to the church. Bythe time we got there everyone would already be gone. We decided we would finish our shopping and get something to eat as we had not had dinner yet. We didn’t feel bad about missing the Bible study because we figured God had wanted us to have this time and conversation with this hurting mother. But He wasn’t done yet.

We finished our shopping and headed to get something to eat at a local restaurant when Marie’s phone rang. It was another old friend on the line. For years now, this person had been taking care of an elderly gentleman they had known since they were a child as he lived out the last years of his life.

She told Marie that the man had passed away that day. Well here goes God again. We were free. We hadn’t gone to the discipleship group or the Bible study and now we were available to spend time with this friend who just needed some encouragement. We invited her to dinner and talked abotu all sorts of things, especially God and the Bible.

God knew both of these situations existed and He allowed us to participate in His ministry. He cleared our calendars so we could. He knows what He is doing.

We need a Paradigm Change – Badly!

Numbers occupy a lot of our lives. We have phone numbers, addresses, identification numbers such as SS or employee ID’s, licenses and much more.

Churches use numbers a lot too. We keep attendance, finance, and membership numbers, pardon the pun, “religiously”. The numbers we focus on in the church tell us something about what is important to us and can send the wrong message. Some would say they reinforce what is ailing the church.

The attendance numbers are the most important to us in the church. It is those numbers that tell us how well we are doing. We may say those numbers aren’t important and that they merely represent souls, but the unfortunate truth is we use them to tell us whether we are successful, regardless of how much we deny it. Membership is often another way of measuring our success. You see, our psyche makes us feel we need to get people to join us to be successful.

But what does attendance really say or mean? On one hand we like to say that the church is everywhere and not just in a building, but then the main thing we measure is how many people come to the building. The truly radical among us might also measure how many come to a once a week Bible study or Cell group and count that in the attendance number. We keep measuring how many come to something.

Interestingly, in pastoral reports we do measure how many people were saved but those numbers are typically miniscule compared to our attendance numbers, even in a small church. What does that say? We explain it away by the fact that most of the people that come to church are already saved. Then why are we spending such a high percentage of our service to God in merely attending? Why are most of our “ministries” centered around this act of attending, i.e. music, singing, teaching Sunday School, taking care of the building, etc.?

Isn’t attendance important? Well, let’s look at that. The passage we use most to validate this thought is Heb. 10:25 – “not giving up meeting together, as some are in the habit of doing, but encouraging one another—and all the more as you see the Day approaching.” But in the same letter in chapter 3 verse 13 we are told “But encourage one another daily, as long as it is called “Today,” so that none of you may be hardened by sin’s deceitfulness.” I can’t go to church daily, it is just not feasible. So as long as I think of the church not only as a place but as ‘my’ group of people, i.e. the people who attend or are members of where I go to church I cannot obey Heb 3:13. If you examine Heb 10:25 more closely the real point of that verse is to gather for a purpose, which is specifically to encourage one another. It’s not the gathering that is important but the encouraging. So how can I obey Heb 3:13? I have to think of church differently. Church must become to me all of the followers of Christ, not just my group (my congregation, fellow church-maembers).

How did the early ‘church” view church? Didn’t they talk about numbers? Didn’t they keep track of how many people were fed miraculously? What about in Acts when it talks about how many people were added to their number? What about those things? The book of Revelation also mentions numbers as does other passages. But where do we find mention of the number of people attending church? The miraculous feedings tell us how many people were served by Christ (and one could say the church). The approximately 3000 added to their number on the day of Pentecost tells us of a great revival, but we never get a follow-up on how many attended weekly.

Ironically, counting numbers got David in trouble once. While the Lord told Moses in Exodus and Numbers and David once in 2nd Samuel to take a census; that was to organize, tax and put them to service. But I Chronicles 21:1 says “Satan rose up against Israel and incited David to take a census of Israel.” This didn’t turn out well because it was a matter of pride and arrogance rather than obedience. Is our attendance counting a matter of pride as well?